I Couldn't Afford to Go to Work Today

You couldn't just say 'car-pooling'? You had to go and say something dickish like that?

Arthur,

Folks from the right tend to depise articles that point out how greedy they are. They often pretend to miss the point.

:)

Just goes to prove that they know they are wrong...

Yea what about prostitution. Whats the big deal?

Wear a condom.

(Sarcasm)

We need something we can LIVE ON. I need a wage that allows me, at the very least, to afford to go to work!

The "complainer" is bitching about their wages after FIVE YEARS of living paycheck to paycheck?

Here it is, a WEEK after Payday, and they're broke?

That has NOTHING to do with the wages, and EVERYTHING to do with financial MISMANAGEMENT.

That has NOTHING to do with the wages, and EVERYTHING to do with financial MISMANAGEMENT.

Any real proof this applies to everyone in this situation?

Kids get sick, gas prices go up. Tolls go up. Low wages in the first place don't allow much for savings.

" Financial mismangement" is a cop out. Wages have flatlined while prices go up. If I make 100 dollars a week and need 105 dollars to pay for and buy my necessities then what do I do?

If you have to live paycheck to paycheck then one catastophe and you are screwed.

tobii,

Some people are good with money because they are greedy. Some people aren't because they aren't.

People that never learned to share, end up wealthy in the United States. One of the ways they accomplish this is to deride and demonize the poor. They elevate themselves, think they are better. Make assumptions of self worth based on the brand of car they drive, or others drive. Or even if they are wearing the right underwear...

Shallow people.

Oddly enough these same folks often claim to follow this wise man named Jesus. Jesus said right up front, "Can't follow me and have a lot of stuff." - New Flameaway Interpretation, NFI

Jesus further went on to say,"I'm down with the poor, the rich can take a leap and so can their bankers." - NFI evicting the moneychangers.

So in summary, it is patently foolish to defend the rich, unless you are one.

In that case, it's just a dog snarling to defend a bone.

:)

Some people are good with money because they are greedy

What a crock of %$#@. That's the excuse people with no marketable skills make.

People that never learned to share, end up wealthy in the United States

What is this, kindergarten? You want to be rewarded for doing NOTHING? You get exactly what you are worth.

Income re-distribution for those who are too lazy to better themselves is called WELFARE.

tobii,

The weathy think geed is a strength. It's not. In fact this kind of rampant drive to wealth is what is destroying our country.

BTW tobii, are you a Christian? I'm just saying because if you are, you are supposed to declare it. It's the whole cock crowing three times thing.

I'm just pointing this out because you seem to be ignoring the arguments against greed in the Bible.

" Financial mismangement" is a cop out. Wages have flatlined while prices go up. If I make 100 dollars a week and need 105 dollars to pay for and buy my necessities then what do I do?

Make a few cuts, like one less beer, or pack of cigarettes, or eliminate a cell phone (at least a smaller plan), reduce your cables TV package, eliminate internet........ I'd bet we could easily find more than $5 that could be redirected.

No way. This woman is a lazy cow.

She ought to get fit and run to work or something.

What hell is wrong with her?

( sarcasm), Maybe we might look to Dunald Trump for guidance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XMGfg5-9vY

SC Texan

As long as wages stay flatlined and prices go up that five dollars becomes six dolllars and so on. You can cut just so much till that's it...nothing left to cut. After awhile, when you have cut out everything excepy food and rent, you don'y have much quality of life. That breeds disontentment and resentment. That is what leads to revolution.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just pay real wages. When every one is happy and having a good time then it is better for every one. Instead of only a few having quality and the vast majority feeling like serfs.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just pay real wages

No.

Would it make sense for these people complaining to LEARN a marketable skill that will earn them a better wage?

Yes.

I'm not gonna pay someone $20 an hour to mop a floor.

I will pay that same person $20 an hour if they are qualified to install Cat5.

See the difference? Low Skill = Low Wages.

Ok tobii,

What if no one wanted to pay more than 5 dollars an hour to install Cat5's? That is how you end up with shoddy merchandise, but big profits.

Well that is the way it is going.

Employers were never benelovent. Only hard fought union rules turnd into laws gave workers good pay and benefits.

Why would you be against a good time for all.???

If I make 100 dollars a week and need 105 dollars to pay for and buy my necessities then what do I do?

Then you get a second job.

Well that is the way it is going.

No, it isn't. Low skill = Low wages.

hard fought union rules

Union? Please. How much did YOU pay in Union dues last year? What did it get you? Then why are you still complaining about wages?

I believe that anyone that puts in an honest 40+ hours of work per week, regardless of skill level, deserves to be paid enough to have a modest living, including being able to make a mortgage payment on a modest house, a modest vehicle, pay the electric/water/sewage and phone bills, put gas in the tank, food on the table, and inexpensive clothes on their whole family. Anybody that works 40+ hours a week has earned at least that much. Oh, and they deserve one more thing... respect.

Now if they want a bigger home, a nicer car, or expensive clothes, that's another story... for that they either need to work harder, longer, or have skills that go beyond unskilled labor.

No one achieves so much in life that they have the 'right' to condemn another and frankly, I'm more than a little surprised at the hard-hearted nature of some of the comments I've read here so far.

Welcome to the Real World.

Perhaps, by changing ONE word, you'll understand the problem better?

No one achieves so LITTLE in life that they have the 'right' to condemn another

Now, take another look at the comments using THAT perspective.

This article being #1 - A person working FIVE years at the same place for minimum wage, being broke a WEEK after payday.

'Catastrophic' circumstances can happen to anyone regardless of their station in life. Whether they arrive in the form of a personal sickness that saps every last dollar you've saved

Americans have a NEGATIVE savings rate. Who's at fault for that?

The real world?

Let's summarize the real world.

There's this made up stuff called money. It has various other made up sub forms. For example, credit cards, debit cards, credit/debit card, casino chips, checks, CDs, blah to the nth.

This entire universe of pecuniary interest is governed by how much everyone believes in the scam being foisted upon them (in this case largely through our hmm... less than faithful?... media folks).

The scam is called the economy. The head honco is Bernanke.

<deep booming voice from on high>

"Er... I sorta @!$%#ed up... The prime rate is umm... (<scowls in concentration> times eleventy seven percent, carry the one) er...okay."

"Minus two?"

Meanwhile in the imaginary world of reality, families are falling through the cracks the wealthy have driven into our system with their quite inprovident greed.

...

Savings rate? I'm sorry, but when you eat Ramen to pay for your kid's school lunches...

"You don't need no stinkin' savings..." Besides it's public policy to have a negative savings rate, or haven't you seen all those credit card commercials, that pay for Fox News?

On the other hand, you do get to spend a lot of time helping your son with his homework. And maybe we'll get lucky and he'll invent a way to turn farts into a sustainable energy source. Then we can all eat cabasa and toot our way to Disney Land every year.

It could happen...

At least it'll be an adventure. :)

Meanwhile in the imaginary world of reality, families are falling through the cracks the wealthy have driven into our system with their quite inprovident greed.

The wealthy didn't make you finance that house that went into foreclosure.

The wealthy didn't make you finance that SUV that was repossessed.

The wealthy didn't make you finance all that crap you bought on credit.

Placing blame doesn't solve the problem.

Being held responsible and accountable DOES.

I own my own home. (true, it's an RV :) )

I've never owned an SUV.

I don't have any debt.

I haven't owned a credit card in years.

Placing blame is indeed the first part of the solving the problem. It's foolish to think otherwise.

I'm not the one being irresponsible and unaccountable.That's would be the wealthy folks and their banks. Remember Bernie, the housing bubble, Georgie Porgie and his two fake wars...?

Greed has shifted our viewpoint. Instead of simply acknowledging the failures of business and banking, we act like junkies, returning time and again for another dose of the @!$%# that is killing us.

including being able to make a mortgage payment on a modest house, a modest vehicle, pay the electric/water/sewage and phone bills, put gas in the tank, food on the table, and inexpensive clothes on their whole family.

That is nice. How much of a mortgage?80K, 100K, 200K, 300K, 400K, 500K?

How much for a vehicle?10K,20K,30K,40K? Most millionaires have never paid more than 30K for a car.

How much food? My parents use to have a food bill of 900 a month for a family of 4.

How much phone bill? I know people that have an 700 dollar phone bill and complain they don't have enough money for it.

What is considered inexpensie cloths?

No, it isn't. Low skill = Low wages.

Your right it It is also a lot easier to get a job when you have a skill. It takes me just hours to get one.

Placing blame is indeed the first part of the solving the problem. It's foolish to think otherwise.

That doesn't solve the problem. Thank you for demonstrating my point.

Someday, take the time to learn how to solve a problem.

These techniques are usually called problem solving strategies.

Abstraction: solving the problem in a model of the system before applying it to the real system

Analogy: using a solution that solved an analogous problem

Brainstorming: (especially among groups of people) suggesting a large number of solutions or ideas and combining and developing them until an optimum is found

Divide and conquer: breaking down a large, complex problem into smaller, solvable problems

Hypothesis testing: assuming a possible explanation to the problem and trying to prove (or, in some contexts, disprove) the assumption

Lateral thinking: approaching solutions indirectly and creatively

Means-ends analysis: choosing an action at each step to move closer to the goal

Method of focal objects: synthesizing seemingly non-matching characteristics of different objects into something new

Morphological analysis: assessing the output and interactions of an entire system

Reduction: transforming the problem into another problem for which solutions exist

Research: employing existing ideas or adapting existing solutions to similar problems

Root cause analysis: eliminating the cause of the problem
Trial-and-error: testing possible solutions until the right one is found

Proof: try to prove that the problem cannot be solved. The point where the proof fails will be the starting point for solving it

Notice the ABSENCE of placing blame?

People look to place blame in order to avoid taking responsibility. Just like what we have read in this article - it's not the fault of the imbecile who is broke a week after payday - it's the employer's fault. Yes, and spoons make people fat.

tobii,

Sorry, I should have said responsibility. It's what I meant.

:)

Have you noticed how you only pick certain parts of my comments to respond to?

I have...

Are you a Christian?

That is nice. How much of a mortgage?80K, 100K, 200K, 300K, 400K, 500K?

How much for a vehicle?10K,20K,30K,40K? Most millionaires have never paid more than 30K for a car.

How much food? My parents use to have a food bill of 900 a month for a family of 4.

How much phone bill? I know people that have an 700 dollar phone bill and complain they don't have enough money for it.

What is considered inexpensie cloths?

Anyone that works full time deserve a modest living, not a lavash living. For a lavash living they would need to have skills above that of general labor, or work harder/longer, etc..

So to answer you directly, home costs vary by area... so it's impossible to set a specific home price for what someone at the bottom of the ladder deserves, it's easier to simply say a modest home for that area. Vehicle costs, I would think 10k is more than enough to buy a modest used vehicle. How much food, well, $200 per person per month is probably about average right now. Anyone that works full time certainly deserves to eat their fill and have a family that doesn't have to go hungry. How much phone bill, well, a minimum phone bill, you know, the basic monthly rate for residential service? somewhere between $20-30/month. What is considered inexpensie cloths? Wal-Mart clothes prices.

Are you a Christian?

Are you an idiot?

The question has the same merit as yours. Completely irrelevant to the discussion.

SO your saying minimum wage should be based on the individual circumstance if he has 6 kids working in Hollywood how much should he make?

No Auto 101 I'm saying that anyone that puts in an honest 40 hours of work every week deserves at the very least, a modest living.

tobii,

LOL

Without merit? Says you... Here's why it's important whether or not you are a Christian. Here are the different cases concerning whether you are a Christian.

1) If you are a Christian, you can't say you are, because you know what that particular philosophy says about greed.

2) If you are a Christian you can't say you are not - not and be still be a Christian.

3) You can't be a Christian and deny it...and you just have. You are taking the same route Peter took when asked by an official if he knew Christ... Peter responded to the question a couple of times with evasive answers just like yours. (Really quite striking how history repeats itself)

4) You actually aren't a Christian in which case it's completely okay for you to be greedy. If this is the case you'd win the argument, so one would think you just come out a tell me, "Nope, not a Christian" People that don't believe in Christianity just say so, they don't beat around the bush trying to find an out...

Yeah, if I were you I'd say the question didn't matter either...

The cock is crowing. That's once...

Would you care to deny that you're a Christian a couple more times?

I mean so that you can win this argument?

:)

"Take that cock and shove it up your ass, flame. I AM A JEW."

You are a homosexual Jew? I haven't heard of that particular sect. What? You go to like, gay temple or something? :)

You always get so irritated with me.

If you could get by the whole 'wanting to @!$%# me in the ass' thing, we might even be friends...

LOLOLOLOL

On a personal note: I'm rubber you're glue, everything you say bounces off me and sticks to you.

:P

You realize that once you tell me to @!$%# off - I've won the intellectual portion of the the contest, right?

All that remains is to see how silly I can make you look...

Since you've already stepped on your tongue and are currently marching down your own throat, I'd say I don't have very much left to do here...

:D

This is why we have the "Ignore this author" option on the 'Vine.

Perhaps you've forgotten your post #1.9?

Have a nice day.

BTW, I think it's clear who the idiot is...

The thing about silence as affirmation is that it's not the aphorism you should have been looking at.

Opening your mouth and removing all doubt kinda of just slapped the crap out of you.

;)

I'm building quite a collection of people who have to click the plus sign to see what I wrote...

Seems a bit silly, but I guess it's my lot in life to have anti-fans.

:)

Hey Joe!

(where you goin' with that gun in your hand)

I don't think I've crossed the line here, but I don't have a problem if you want to delete my comments to clean up your seed.

It has gotten kind of far off topic...

:)

<to the room>

What?

I was just enjoying a debate on greed (and thinking I was slapping another christian around) when suddenly tobii tells me to keister a male chicken.

Is that even kosher?

Joe,

Okay, I'm out.

Cya :)

Great job moderating, Joe.

How many times does one to have report a violation of the COH on YOUR thread before you acknowledge it?

1. Above all else, respect others. ... [R]efrain from making personal attacks.

Let's review some posts here since you can't seem to "identify them" as attacks.

post #1.9

post #3.6

post #3.23

post #3.28

post #3.30

post #3.35

If you are going to moderat, MODERATE. Don't make your bias so blatantly obvious.

#1.9

Specifically,

You have zero sympathy for stupidity?

...

Well, self esteem issues aside...

I'll cop to this one. I was applying the needle. Just carefully, so that I reduced my exposure to a rules violation. Oddly enough by admitting it, I just committed it. I left it non specific knowing that tobbii would get the message, while leaving me some plausible deniability. Push comes to shove, now that I've been accused, I'd just rather take the heat.

By way of instruction, To Whom it May Concern.

I will point out that such a non specific insult has to be personalized by the individual who then decides to be offended. This decision often means that I've gained an immediate advantage. I've pointed this out to tobii in a couple of places during this confrontation. (which I do for ethical reasons, after all I could just continue needling him on the sly and not point out that it gives me an advantage) I do this kind of thing a lot, because I enjoy the contest of debate - and I like to win, and teach.

I'll also admit to being amused when such a simple device hamstrings my opponent. It's a weakness I'm working on by admitting. :) I don't feel much remorse, though. I figure my opponent has the same chance against me. I've been had that way several times on the vine. I took my lumps and tried to learn a bit of judo...

modest living.

Define a modest living. For me a family of 4 it is making between 60-100K and that gives me about 2-5K of free money every month.

Yah, Right to Work... means that if you do assemble the employer has a right to fire any of the people organizing the assembling with no reason given. Means that if a strike is called there is no Union funds to make sure the workers that have been living WEEK TO WEEK have money to feed their kids. Means that the employer can hire a bunch of new hires to replace the old people and properly scare the new people with the nice story about how his old workers tried to rise up and were savagely crushed.

Right to Work didn't even the playing field for Union and Employers, it stripped all Unions the bargianing chips they could use to get a fair deal. Right to Work means you have a Right to fear for your job.

NB,

Right to work gives the worker the right to chose. I thought choice is what most liberals were for???

Yea , just because she is envious of the rich folk.

Religion stops the poor from murdering the rich :)

We need to cut the deficit NOW. So they can't eat. Tough, We need to safe ourselfs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-nEFO4A3bo

Yah, Right to Work... means that if you do assemble the employer has a right to fire any of the people organizing the assembling with no reason given.

The employer is the one paying the money and buying the labor. Of course the employer has the right to choose whom he buys the labor from. Unionization is a display of an attitude problem, and employees with attitude problems need to be fired before their attitude problems turn uglier than they already are.

Means that if a strike is called there is no Union funds to make sure the workers that have been living WEEK TO WEEK have money to feed their kids.

People so irresponsible as to be living WEEK TO WEEK shouldn't be raising kids anyway. Irresponsible parents will always raise irresponsible kids, and living WEEK TO WEEK is just irresponsible behavior.

Means that the employer can hire a bunch of new hires to replace the old people and properly scare the new people with the nice story about how his old workers tried to rise up and were savagely crushed.

Good grief, "savagely crushed" is now getting a pink slip? Smells like hyperbole to me. At that rate, getting a speeding ticket is proof positive that we're living in a Police State.

Some jobs aren't career class jobs and should have new hires. There is such a thing as a career ladder, after all. If you're bagging groceries like a 15-year-old at his first after-school job and you think that you've got to unionize to protect your lifetime career then that's just pathetic.

As nearly as I can tell, the career man in this opinion piece had worked for FIVE YEARS at a "Major Retail Outlet" fulfilling mail orders. Basically, his job was bag boy class.

His little girl is going to have to make something up when at career day in school when kids are asked what their parents do for a living. "My daddy has been a bag boy for ten years!" is just going to make the girl a laughingstock. "My daddy is a UNION bag boy!" doesn't make it sound any better.

Right to Work didn't even the playing field for Union and Employers, it stripped all Unions the bargianing chips they could use to get a fair deal. Right to Work means you have a Right to fear for your job.

Unions are terrorist organizations fraught with violence and controlled by the Mafia. It's not organized labor, it's organized crime and I want no part of it.

All right-to-work means is that no Union has the right to demand money from me to pay for representation that I don't want for a cause that I don't believe in. I don't want to join the Union for the same reasons I don't want to join the Mafia... I'm not a fan of criminal enterprises.

No. A full time worker earning even just $8 an hour doesn't qualify for financial assistance... fortunately for him, since he's losing his job over this I'm sure, he'll qualify for financial assistance very soon.

This wage falls into the gap between welfare and work, at that pay, welfare pays better, but they can't get assistance at that pay level, so many choose to quit or get fired so that they can get welfare because it doesn't pay to work. It's a bizarre situation that no person that puts in an honest 40 hours of work every week should ever find themselves in.

Disclaimer - The only reason I know all this is that this is not the first article I've read on the subject, but I have no personal experience to draw from, so I am far from an expert on the subject.

Z1P2,

His job has a gross of 16,640.00 per year and has one child. Isn't that living at poverty level which would qualify the person for welfare assistance? I don't know what to look up to see if it qualifies.

I know for a fact that earning 20,000 dollars a year in California makes you ineligible for food stamps, school lunches, healthcare...

I'm trying to find income qualifications for Ohio but it's pretty difficult due to the number of assistance programs out there.

Yeah, it's difficult. Go to your local library. They can usually help, and if not. There will be folks there using the computers that can...

I don't want to make an all encompassing statement but It appears to me that at that income level with one child the person damn well ought to qualify for assistance of some sort.

Yeah, this article is suspect. It's just some guy writing about his life. Some of the details sound a bit fishy to me as well.

Yea must be a communist conspiracy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg6-Jmsdafo

Isn't that living at poverty level which would qualify the person for welfare assistance?

I don't think so. He's earning above minimum wage at a full time job...

Also, why should the government subsidize employers that underpay their employees? That's what giving welfare to someone that's working full time and being paid minimum wage or above would amount to.

why would homeownership determine welfare qualification? What's the difference if you pay $300 per month rent or $300 per month house payment? Why would that matter?

Just found this,

"Certain resources, such as your home, are not counted"

http://www.nlsa.us/resources/benefits/pb3_application_tips.html

Thank you buckeye for 11.1. I was wondering just that. I would rather pay my house payment for me, than pay more in rent to make another's house payment plus adding gas, water, electric etc. Would only save me taxes which the home owner that rents to you probably includes in rent price.

I know I would.

And that scares the bejesus out of the 1%, the people using our numbers. It is why they fight hard to keep us fighting/divided.